National Park Service

Mount Rushmore in in, Keystone, South Dakota.

Lists can be conversation starters and fun — but flawed — ways of looking at interesting subjects and topics of historical significance. And that’s no different when it comes to ranking the men who’ve led from the Oval Office and lived in the White House.

In the new book "The Presidents," Brian Lamb and Susan Swain of C-SPAN — along with a team of historians — rank those leaders from No. 1 to No. 43. The top ten is led by Abraham Lincoln and includes seven who served in the 20th Century. Meanwhile, the impeached Andrew Johnson is No. 42 — ahead of only James Buchanan.

The rankings were based on a list of 10 criteria, and Lamb and Swain joined The Show to talk about the book.